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Subject: I argued over text with a conservative friend about that crap yesterday. - [Edit Post] 1 0
I sent him the Esquire article two days ago, responded yesterday. I'll just share some of this conversation and his points.
"For Moore, the RNC isn't putting him in office. The voters are. If all this stuff is true, then the voters will keep him out of office."
IotB : "So if the RNC was funding Al Qaeda it is all good? Support carries a certain amount of responsibility"
"I guess no more than the DNC was funding Weiner even after being caught the first time" (Whataboutism)
IotB : "There is a huge difference between an affair / dick pics with an adult (first time) and a 30 year old preying on 17 and under"
"I don't think there is. Weiner was texting underage girls. The intent was the same. It all comes down to the voters. Let them decide"
IotB : "You said DNC was supporting Weiner. That didn't happen when he sexted a 15 year old. He left congress in 2011, 15 year old was discovered in 2016. So no it is not the same thing"
--Summarizing 4 texts from him : Question about what got Weiner in trouble. Question about what Moore did was legal and acceptable 30 years ago. Admits to not being an expert on this subject, but says nobody would care if the senate seat wasn't so important.
--Summarizing 2 texts from me : I tell him to look at my first response when he brought up Weiner and noted he was forced to resign over dick pics and affair. I disagreed with him that this Moore issue wouldn't be big news.
"To me, its politics as usual. Politicians riding the coattails of Hollywood"
IotB : "I can't really believe we are debating this"
"Lol, if all this is fact as you claim, then the voters will keep him out. I really have no vested interest either way. And Al Franken should be removed from office as well" (Whataboutism)
IotB : "So you don't think it's wrong that Trump and the RNC are supporting someone accused and likely is a child sex predator?"
"If all the accusations are true, of course I have issue with it."
IotB : "You don't think it's hypocritical and inane that conservatives, the alleged people of strong moral values are waffling on rejecting and denouncing this?"
"Dude. Take a step back... and think about the people you are talking about... politicians. Below lawyers... will lie their ass off to your face and smile. This is why I didn't vote at all. I guess I am very jaded when it comes to politicians. Watching football... all the players slapping each other on the ass... sexual assault?"
IotB : "This matters though. You have to see that. You have to understand that politics / party can not be greater than country, or basic human decency. There are 8 women claimin to have had relations with that guy while being 17 or less, one who says she was 14, in addition to all the other sources like the DA of the county saying he had a reputation for dating high schoolers and being banned from the mall when he was 30 years old!"
"If it's all true, then he is doomed."
IotB : "This is not a guy who should get benefit of the doubt. I mean you have to acknowledge that and then say what Trump and the RNC are doing is fucked up and hypocritical bullshit, and anyone who supports this shit is not a conservative"
"I often wonder how slick Willy stayed in office after what he did." (whataboutism)
IotB : If he was in congress he probably would have been forced to resign. But they wouldn't have spent all the resources to find out. She was also an adult and thus not the same thing. Finally it changes nothing about the moral hypocrisy and more importantly does not make Trump or the RNC right in supporting Moore at all."
"Lying to congress? I did not have sexual relations with that woman. And people blew that off? My point... to this shit is nothing new. I am certainly not defending him or the RNC, I am just numb to it all."
IotB : "Well apathy isn't going to change anything."
"and getting angry isn't either. I'm not a voter in that state."
IotB : "Rejecting and denouncing Trump, the RNC and any conservative who supports this is not unreasonable is it?"
"I don't like Trump already. I didn't put him or his bunch in office."
IotB : "That wasn't my question though"
IotB : "It's a simple yes or no. :)"
"It is not a simple yes or no, and you won't get either from me. I don't know the facts, and it's really not up to me. You have already convicted all of them, but you know more than I do. Whether he goes to prison like Weiner or not, really isn't up to me. The RNC/Trump supporting him does not make them accessories to any crime. Someone should bring criminal charges against him if it's all true. Then it would be a slam dunk. Why haven't these people went to the police?"
IotB : "This shouldn't be so controversial. If one of your friends at age 30 had sexual relations with your daughter at age 16 and it wasn't a crime, I doubt you would be their friend, and I doubt you would support them in anything they do, and I doubt you would think it is ok others would support them for public office or roles, like say Mayor or girls volleyball coach.
Oh well. I hope we still agree that Nazi's and fascism are bad! ;) "
We go back and forth a lot past this and he continues to bring up Franken and Bill Clinton. I asked him / challenged him for a response on "Rejecting and denouncing Trump, the RNC and any conservative who supports this is not unreasonable is it?" and he continued to deflect, also said I was playing partisan politics. I told him if Dems were doing this I'd be bitching as well. I then pointed out that his refusal to answer that question is a problem and said that if he asked me the same question but with Democrats/Liberals swapped out, that I would easily answer it as "No" and then asked how he can say I'm playing partisan politics.
It was quite the shit show. This guy I've known for like 25 years or so and he's not an idiot, just has some really bad blind spots and cognitive dissonance issues. I also linked him to Ben Shapiro's youtube video on Whataboutism in the hopes he'd stop using that debate tactic.
“I have a foreboding of an America in my children’s or my grandchildren’s time — when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what’s true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness. The dumbing down of America is most evident in the slow decay of substantative content in the enormously influential media, the 30-second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance.” -Carl Sagan 1995